An Interview with Too Much Joy

Back in the late 80s, goof-pop was everywhere, thanks to the likes of the Dead Milkmen, early Ween and New York's own Too Much Joy. Songs like "If I Was a Mekon," "Making Fun of Bums," "Take a Lot of Drugs" and the immortal "Clowns." Bands like this did not come around that often and when they did, they usually didn't stick around long.
Fortunately for TMJ, their songs and legacy have endured because of their website, http://www.toomuchjoy.com/ and through the work of frontman Tim Quirk, who now works for Rhapsody.
The following are two interviews conducted in about 2008 with Mr. Quirk as well as drummer/former NYC cop Tommy Vinton.

Tim's Interview:

What was it like when you guys got started?

Depends what you mean by “it.” The business was radically different – it was a lot more difficult (and expensive) to record quality-sounding material, but since that meant there were fewer other releases to compete with, it was much easier than now for a bunch of kids to get heard (on radio, or by record companies, or an MTV, etc.). In terms of the band and the music we were making, we were young and drunk and giddy and felt very much like it was us against the world – a feeling that gradually faded as our career progressed and different band members developed different ideas about how our music should develop and what we should do with it.

What was 'success' like and how did you guys deal with it?

I felt successful once we hit a point where we could fill a 200-500 person club, and come home from a tour with (a little) more money in our pockets than when we left. And that felt great – especially when fans talked to me using the same words I’d always used in my own head to describe what my favorite bands (Clash, Mekons, R.E.M.) meant to me. I dealt with it by drinking all the free beer that came along with it, and hugging Jay, and hoping it would never end. But other band members and the companies funding our recording very legitimately had loftier definitions of success for us, not all of which we actually achieved.

How did you guys manage to snag a deal with Warner Brothers?

We got scooped up at a time when the majors were signing lots of indie bands who hadn’t necessarily proved they had a core audience they could sustain, or lots of great albums in them. But there was a general sense that, among bands like Husker Du, the Replacements, REM, Soul Asylum, the Meat Puppets and followers of all those bands (among whom TMJ absolutely counted ourselves), *one* of those bands eventually had to break wide commercially. As it happened, REM and then Nirvana proved that thinking true. Unfortunately, once Nirvana went multi-platinum (as opposed to just gold, as REM had managed), anything less became a mark of failure.

What all happened with Bozo, if you don't mind talking about it again?

We sampled him from an old children’s LP saying, “And then I found something in one of my pockets. It was about as big as your shoe, but shaped like a rocket” at the beginning of “Clowns” on Son of Sam I Am. He read about it in an interview we did (Larry Harmon, the original Bozo, had a clipping service that sent him any mention of Bozo in a newspaper), and his attorneys sent us a cease and desist letter. We had to pay him about $200 and agree to stop selling Son of Sam I Am, which would have been a big deal if we hadn’t just signed with Warner, who wanted to re-release the album anyway with a new mix of That’s a Lie and some bonus tracks. So they just cut out the sample on the re-release.

Why did you guys get moved to Giant and how did you deal with that?

Giant was one of many labels with the Warner Music Group. We went there because the A&R guy who first offered us a deal (Danny Keaton), had originally worked at Chrysalis, but got a better offer from Irving Azoff, who had just formed Giant. It was good in that they gave us big recording budgets (over 100K), and also cuz having a major label deal meant we could also get a big publishing advance, which is how we paid our rents for a couple years.

What happened with Mutiny, it was a great album, my favorite by the way and it just seems the label dropped the ball?

Radio played the first single (Donna Everywhere) as much as they’d played Crush Story. But they didn’t respond to the follow-up, and Giant told us to go make the next record. We spent our own money making a video of In Perpetuity in an effort to get the label to work that as a single, and there was apparently a vote amongst all the local reps (employees based in places like St. Louis and Boston responsible for promoting us in those markets) who thought they should do it. But Irving said no.

What happened when Sandy left and how did you guys deal with it?

He’d had a straight job for a year or more at that point, and had been spending less and less time at rehearsals and writing, so it wasn’t a huge shock. We had a gig planned a couple weeks later, and we frankly needed the dough, so cancelling wasn’t something we considered. We just asked ourselves who we didn’t hate who could learn all the bass parts quickly, and Bill was the obvious choice – he knew most of the songs already because he’d been joining us on 2nd guitar on stage sometimes already. The rehearsals for the show and the show itself went so smoothly that it made a lot of sense to offer him the gig permanently. I have no idea why he said yes, but that was that.

How was it bringing Will in and how did that work out?

It worked really well – he fell right into the rhythm of giving each other shit on the way to the shows then jumping all the aggression off onstage each night. And he’d already been writing with us, so that, too, was just a natural extension of stuff that was already going on. Like everyone else in the band, he could be opinionated and domineering (he was a producer, after all), so the songs started veering in a slightly more poppy direction (Sandy was always lobbying for complicated, dissonant bits that would please musos, but Jay and Bill and I liked stuff short and simple and sweet). Simplifying the sound also toughened it up a bit, though, as we basically shed anything extraneous. That’s why Finally sounded the way it did by the time we were done. Most of the outtakes that came out on the Crack reissue and Gods and Sods (with exceptions like Texas Sunday) weren’t as punky as what we wound up with. Most of those tracks were written when Sandy was still in the band 24/7.

When did you guys hook up with Discovery and how did that work out?

We’d been talking to them for a while, but Discovery basically signed us after seeing us play a showcase at SXSW in ’95, I think. It had been a jazz label, but Jac Holzman (who’d founded Elektra) had come back to turn it into a rock label. It worked out OK for the first record, but we had a two firm deal, which meant they were contractually obligated to release a follow-up to finally. However, Holzman left and Seymour Stein (who’d founded Sire) took over. Seymour had tried to sign us back in ’89, but we went with Giant, and he held a grudge. He told our manager he wouldn’t be releasing our second album. They wound up having to pay us for the album we would have made in order to get us to go away. Left a sour taste in our mouths.

When did you guys decide to 'break up' or go on a very long hiatus?

We never broke up. I moved to SF, then Jay moved to LA, so things slowed down drastically. For 8 years my wife and I had wanted to move to the Bay Area (where we’d met), and each year I said, “This time next year the band will either have broken up or broken through, and then we can live wherever we want.” In ’97 I realized neither of those were ever gonna happen, so I told her it was time to do what we wanted to do and let the band deal with the aftermath, rather than the other way around.

When did you start/get involved with Rhapsody?

I joined listen.com in August of ’99, listen built Rhapsody in 2001 and got acquired by RealNetworks in 2003.

Besides that, what are you up to now?

Rhapsody’s pretty much a 24/7 gig, at this point, and I’m as proud of it as I am of anything I ever did with TMJ. Beyond that, I just hang with my family or record with Jay whenever our schedules allow.

Do you still keep in touch with everyone?

Yup. I just sent everyone their tax info last month, and we still give each other affectionate shit over email. Plus I’m in NY a lot, so sometimes we grab drinks or dinner. Sandy works in a similar space (online music, but from the traditional radio broadcaster side), so we do business together from time to time, or wind up at the same industry events.

How was the reunion show and are there plans for anymore?

It was sublime. I trust my wife to tell me when we suck, and her opinion was it was so perfect we’d be crazy to try to top it. I tend to agree with her. So, no plans from me for another one, though Tommy and Bill definitely want to try again. Pretty sure Jay’s with me on this one, though.

Tommy's Interview:

What was it like when you guys got started?

We were in High School when we started... Sandy, Tim and Jay lived in Scarsdale, and I lived in Eastchester, the next town over. They all attended Scarsdale High School while I attended Stepinac H. S. ( a catholic school). The three of them got my name from a local music store (Eastchester Music Center) which still exists today. My drum teacher referred me to them and the rest was history. We got along great, and realized there was something special happening when we played music together. We were also the only band around in our age group that played original music and cool, obscure covers (The Clash, The Jam, Gen X, etc. ) Most bands at the time were playing "Free Bird" and Led Zeppelin covers... when we played school dances the kids could not understand what we were about, but they also woudn't forget us because of our originality. We were very ahead of our time!

What was 'success' like and how did you guys deal with it?

How do you define success? When we first got signed we were able to do a video with LL Cool J, and then ended up touring with the Go Go's. That tour to me, was when it hit me that we were doing alright. At that point we had a road crew working for us, had catering every night at the venues, and to put it mildy, were able to act like rock stars. We trashed hotel rooms, had groupies, had fist fights with each other, and had a damn good time! Dealing with success came naturally for us. For the most part we remained humble and thankful for what we achieved. But it was cool to hang out with celebrities, be treated like royalty, and experience things that most people would never even dream of experiencing. We definitely paid our dues, so to speak!

How did you guys manage to snag a deal with Warner Brothers?

While in High School we recorded "Green Eggs And Crack" and sent it to a ton of different record labels. While doing this we continued to play locally and tour on our own to establish a fan base, and slowly but surely a lot of hype was starting to grow about the band. We ended up signing to Stonegarden Records, a small label out of California, then eventually moved onto a bigger label, Alias records when we recorded "Son Of Sam I Am". After this record, there was a buzz in the industry about us, and next thing you know we were showcasing for record labels. At the time Sire/Warner records really wanted to sign us (Seymour Stein's label) and also Giant/Warner records (Irving Azzoff's label). We opted to sign with Giant, and thus, our relationship with Warner began.

What all happened with Bozo, if you don't mind talking about it again?

When we recorded "Son Of Sam I Am", we ended up sampling a ton of stuff, from U2, to Hugo Burnham from a Gang Of Four... to Bozo:) It was an actual sample taken from a children's record, which we used to begin our song "Clowns". It was a five second intro that said "I found something in one of my pockets. It was about as big as your shoe, but it was shaped like a rocket". Needless to say, we ended up getting this ridiculous letter from Larry Harmon on his official "Bozo letterhead" suing us for using the song. I think we ended up paying him about $250 and once the album was re-released by Giant we had to take it off the record.

Why did you guys get moved to Giant and how did you deal with that?

We opted to go to Giant because, at the time, they seemed like the best option. The A guy at the time, Danny Keaton (who since passed away) was a great guy who truly understood and believed in us, so we thought it was the right decision to go with Giant.

What happened with Mutiny, it was a great album, my favorite by the way and it just seems the label dropped the ball?

Unfortunately Danny Keaton passed away right before this record came out. We very soon realized the importance of having an A guy at the company who REALLY believes in the band he represents. Danny was our lifeline to the label, and worked his ass off to get us to where we were at that point in our careers. Once Danny passed away, we were "assigned" another A person from the label who really didn't care or get what we were about, and thus, our open line of communication with the label was severely damaged. On top of that, we did a video for "Donna Everywhere" which was directed by Teller from Penn and Teller and featured cameos by both of them. We were hoping MTV would embrace it, but instead they only played it a handful of times.

What happened when Sandy left and how did you guys deal with it?

Sandy felt it was time to move on and spend more time with his family which we all respected. There was no animosity whatsoever, and his decision was one we were all on the same page with. To this day, we all remain good friends. I'm actually playing in a band called SURFACE WOUND (www. myspace. com/surfacewound)with Sandy which we started, so I still remain very close to him and consider him a best friend.

How was it bringing Will in and how did that work out?

Bill produced Mutiny, and became very close friends with the band. We got along with him very well. Before Sandy left, Bill actually made a couple of guest appearances at our live shows, so when Sandy bailed, it was a no-brainer to bring Bill on board. He knew all the songs, and was a perfect fit for the band.

When did you guys hook up with Discovery and how did that work out?

After getting let go by Giant, we started shopping for labels to release "Finally"... once again, Discovery came along who were affiliated with Warner, and they were really excited at the opportunity to work for us. We went with them because at the time it was the right way to go. It obviously didn't work out as well as we planned!

When did you guys decide to 'break up' or go on a very long hiatus?

We never broke up. After performing our final show in San Diego in 1997, we decided it was time to do other things with our lives. At that point we had made several records, toured the country many times, and realized we were missing out on other things. A few of us had kids at the time, and others had other professional ambitions, so it was time to move on and experience another aspects of life. So it was definitely a hiatus, and not a break up.

Besides that, what are you up to now?

I just retired after doing 20 years in the NYPD... which was the theme of our "Twenty Fucking Years" retirement/reunion show. I retired out of the Bronx Gang Squad, a unit that was responsible for arresting gang members. I could spend a day telling you of my experiences! I decided to leave because the danger level was way too high, and after experiencing 9/11 first hand and other crazy happenings, I felt it was best to leave for the sake of my family... and my safety!

Do you still keep in touch with everyone?

Absolutely... like I said before I'm playing with Sandy in a band (hopefully we'll be playing out soon!). I've done work with Bill and Cyndi Lauper, and Bill just produced an EP (not released yet) that I recorded with the band Sweet As Ether (www. myspace. com/sweetasether). Jay has been busy directing/producing stuff for TV. He actually just had a reality show called "Here Comes The Newlyweds" premier last week on ABC. It's airing on Sunday night's and will be on tonight at 10PM. I've been talking to Jay about possibly doing a cop-themed show in the future. So to answer your question, we all still keep in contact with one another. Sometimes it becomes difficult because Jay and Tim are on the West coast, and Sandy, Bill and myself are on the East coast, but thanks to the internet, wer'e pretty communicative with each other.

How was the reunion show and are there plans for anymore?

Reunion show was awesome and I can honestly say we all had a blast! From the rehearsals to the actual show, we all had a great time playing, reminiscing, and enjoying each other's company again....

Finally, how was it being a policeman and a musician at the same time for so long?

It was crazy! When the band started to really kick in and I needed to take off, I would have to go out and make overtime and take the overtime in comp time, not cash, so I could accumulate enough time to get off... this meant hustling my ass off to make arrests, which was pretty much the only way to make overtime. So it wasn't unusual to find myself one night running across a darkened rooftop arresting a drug dealer, and the next day jetting off to California to do a video! It was a crazy balancing act I was doing for a while, but it made this whole crazy trip that more memorable!

http://www.toomuchjoy.com/?page_id=3